The Importance of Feminism

The empowerment of women must be taken seriously. If there are women out there who can do a better job than the men currently in power, those women should replace those men. Guaranteeing equal rights to everyone leads to a higher chance of the most talented individuals society has to offer being in the proper position to exercise their talents. We must get over being distracted by the fact a person is male or female (many other nouns could be added to this statement). Getting rid of discrimination is one of the best ways we can improve our society because it ensures that the best are on the job, regardless of what they look like.

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  20 comments for “The Importance of Feminism

  1. April 6, 2015 at 3:19 pm

    I completely agree! It’s shocking how much I’m having to battle my brother, of all people on this. He doesn’t see feminism as empower women, he sees it as attacking men. In some cases, that is what’s happening, but not all the time. He doesn’t see the objectification that women go through, or the inequality we fight against. It’s infuriating

    • April 6, 2015 at 5:23 pm

      In the modern context, your brother is right. All the latest iteration of feminism is an attempt to enforce special privileges for females at the direct expense of men.

      Ladies and the males who believe in Feminism’s worth, you won. You won years ago for most values of the word won. Now you just want more and, even more than simply more, you want a better result without having to put any input into achieving it.

      Take our host’s statement, “If there are women out there who can do a better job than the men currently in power, those women should replace those men,” as an example.

      This already happens…when there’s actually a woman who can do a better job WHO ACTUALLY WILL CHOOSE TO DO SO. Finding a better qualified woman is fairly easy. Finding one who choose to put the job first and almost exclusively foremost is nigh on impossible.

      • April 6, 2015 at 7:28 pm

        I actually quite disagree. I am a woman, and I have always put my job above everything because that’s what I have. I have many successful women friends that work extremely hard at their jobs and are dedicated to their work. I am surrounded by woman that do so in my academic life. The only way I can see any validity to your closing statement is supposing that women put their families before career. However, I don’t feel that is a fully accurate, or isolated statement. There are men out there that put their families before work, just as there are women.
        However, we still live in a world where women are objectified, told how to be beautiful, and if we’re not, we are not as likely to get the job. What’s more, we’re still not in all cases paid equally. On average, across the country, we are still only getting paid 70% of what men are getting paid to do for the same job.
        I live in a really liberal pocket of the world, and it’s not too much of a problem here. But I still get talked down to by the cable repair guy – I had a land lord that refused to talk to me when I went to pay rent, but would only talk to my boyfriend. In politics women aren’t taken as seriously, but instead taken as gossip pieces in regards to their appearance.
        We have been getting better over the decades, but we’re still not there yet, and to say otherwise I believe is turning a blind eye to a huge issue.

      • April 6, 2015 at 7:40 pm

        One, you’re in academia, a rarefied world that it largely divorced from the greater reality so you’re mileage may vary.

        Two – the 70% canard is long proven erroneous. Women, in almost every circumstance get paid exactly the same as men for the same work. The 70% figure was derived from overall US wage statistics and did not account for women gravitating to lower paying work…such as most of academia.

        Three – yes, I was addressing the fact that women do – and are allowed to do so – place family before career more often than men do. In point of fact, almost any man who behaved as the majority of women do in the context of prioritization would suffer far greater material and social consequences than women do.

        Four – we’re all objectified. Women “must” be well put together and attractive and men must be prosperous or possessed of some form, sort, or appearance of power. Arm candy and cash cow, it’s what we’re respectively demanded to be.

      • April 6, 2015 at 9:46 pm

        Women’s rights have come a long way don’t get me wrong, but I disagree we have achieved equality. Especially on a social level, I have noticed sexism to be a rampant part of our society.

        As far as politics go, we’re getting there, but I’m not going to admit women have equal chances with men until we have at least a few female presidents to off set the 43 male presidents we’ve had in a row, or congress becomes more than just 20% female.

        I agree we are all objectified, but it is disproportional. This is another social aspect of sexism, which I thing is the most predominant problem in the US. And feminism is needed quite badly in other parts of the world.

      • April 6, 2015 at 11:24 pm

        Are you saying my opinion and experiences aren’t valid because I’m in academia? I don’t think that has anything to do with it, since I have ten years of experiencing the world outside of college – traveling and living in foreign countries as well as right here in the US.
        I did a little research on the 70% thing and I found quite a few studies supporting and disproving, so as far as I can tell, we could equally back up both sides of that argument. I’ll let that be.
        The third part of your reply – I agree, men do get flack for putting family first, but no one is stopping them from doing so. It is a much greater uphill battle for a woman to be career driven and have a family than it is for men. However, that’s down to the equality thing. Feminism isn’t about shaming men, it’s about striving for equality of people. Men shouldn’t be shamed for taking a step back and being a stay at home dad, and women should have more support for striving to be equal to men.

      • April 6, 2015 at 9:56 pm

        We have genders and gender awareness, that’s not necessarily sexism…though feminists try to claim it is when they don’t like its specifics, though never when they do.

        As for a female POTUS – we’ve had how many women to-date make an even quasi-credible attempt at it? 3? Again, if women don’t enter an arena, don’t blame sexism or men for their not winning many fights.

        As for objectification – I disagree with you that it’s disproportionate. I think you’d just prefer to be objectified the way men are so you don’t see what happens to us to be equal to what happens to you. To be fair though, society at large would agree with you.

      • April 6, 2015 at 10:16 pm

        I’m a male.

      • April 6, 2015 at 11:36 pm

        Jonolan – isn’t a matter of how many women have given the presidency a good run, or is it how much allowance they’ve had? That’s like saying that no non-white politics have ever made a true go for presidency except of Obama.
        As far as objectification goes – you’re saying I am making myself the victim of objectification? So I ask for men to stare at my chest instead of my face? I prefer to be judged on my weight instead of my merit? I ask to get secretarial positions instead of management? I wasn’t aware that my ability to think, speak and act was due to my voicing that none of those things matter because I chose to wore a short skirt for my interview.
        When Palin and Clinton were in the running the comments by reporters were on how they looked, not what those women stood for.
        You’re right, society does have a lot to do with objectification. But look at shows like Madmen, Tudors, Sons of Anarchy – all are highly popular shows and all show women as nothing more than things to get their jollies with. That is what I mean by objectification. We aren’t taken seriously because we are more often than not seen as just a body or something that will produce children. Not all the time, but a lot of the time. Granted, there are a great deal of women that play into that role and that needs to stop too.

      • April 6, 2015 at 10:26 pm

        Sorry for the mistake in gender. I responded to you, thinking you were the host. My bad and my clumsiness.

      • April 6, 2015 at 10:43 pm

        No problem. This is my post, but your conversation was initially between NeuronTree.

        Anyways, I’ve seen sexism in my real life experience several times (as have I extreme racism and homophobia). So, I’ll have a hard time being convinced that there isn’t a problem.

        I understand the resistance of feminism in a sense. There are plenty of extremists who have ruined the title, but there are extremists from every review that ruin things so I their existence doesn’t necessarily ruin the non-extremists who share the same title. Not all Christians are bigots, not all Muslims are terrorists etc. So, not all feminists are man haters who want to the female race to run the world. I simply feel there should be gender equality, and from the knowledge I have amassed at my young age, it looks to be that the struggle is more difficult for women than it is for men (although I do acknowledge the struggle for men is there, but as I said, in my experience it appears disproportionate and that is why gender equality wears the title of feminism).

      • April 6, 2015 at 11:14 pm

        And there you highlight some of the sad issues that plague every sociological agenda.

        “Extreme” is completely subjective and any claims of any of the “-isms” are as well because people driven by agendas have decided that certain things qualify as being them, even though the same things applied to others don’t.

        And really, what IS “gender equality?” That’s a now trite phrase that has no objective meaning in modern discourse. Hence, you and I could argue till the cows come home – or do us a favor and burn down Chicago again 😉 – and have it all come to naught because of a simple semantic disconnect.

        On that note, to my mind equality doesn’t equal congruence in a math / logic sense and there’s no way to have equality of result without penalizing the more successful in any context or contest.

        But, as for the feminists – can we really call their more hated and hateful members extremists with the embedded connotation of fringe element? It seems to me that they’re the new mainstream of the movement.

        Of course, this makes sense to me since I see them as I see the current crop of “Blacktivists,” just greedy, agendists trying to keep a successful movement alive past the point where it won as much as any winning could happen.

        Now, to leaven all that I’ve said to this point, if we could strip all law, politics, school curriculum out of the equation, I’d have no real problem with those who want to coax society to move further in one direction or another.

      • April 6, 2015 at 11:56 pm

        NeuronTree,

        Yes, to a limited extent I’m saying that, in the wider context, your opinion and experiences aren’t valid or, rather, less valid because you’re in academia which is its own hothouse environment with rules, mores, and value weights and judgments that are wholly idiosyncratic. I’m perfectly willing to cop to that. It’s why I ran screaming away from it.

        I, however, 100% agree that, given deeper societal expectations, it is a much greater uphill battle for a woman to be career driven and have a family than it is for men. It is also true though that it is a much greater uphill battle for a man to be family driven and have a career. In a real sense, we do have equality, unless you’re going to place a higher value on career vs. family which, in itself, would be following the supposed dictates of the “Patriarchy.”

        As for the objectification – no, you didn’t ask for it and yes, it belittles you. Guess what though, men face the same level of superficial objectification, just by different metrics…and yes, a lot of those metrics are appearance based, though more are behavior and presentation based.

        Think for a moment about the men in those shows you mentioned. I’m pretty sure they were just as shallow of caricatures as the women – arms to hold arm candy or something to get their jollies with the women, all with the ever so appropriate male stereotyping thrown over top.

    • Matthew Chiglinsky
      April 10, 2015 at 11:10 am

      If you want the respect of men, then act like men:

      – A man would never wear a short skirt (or spandex) or show cleavage. Men only take their shirts off when it’s a really hot day. Men are practical. They don’t constantly crave attention for their bodies the way women seem to these days.

      – A man would usually not call the police if someone tried to rape him or punch him the face.

      – If a man wants a pay raise, he petitions his employer. He doesn’t expect the government to pass a law to make his employer pay him more.

      Men don’t play the victim the way that women do.

      • April 10, 2015 at 3:20 pm

        -I’m not saying that women should crave attention for their bodies, but a lot of times they’re not recognized for their minds, and that’s the only thing they might have. This is a result of the society we live in. What’s more, how come men can take off their shirts and not be slut shamed? And actually, men do crave attention for their bodies. I would say that part is equal.
        -…..we should not call the police for an attempted rape? Congratulations, you’ve baffled me and rendered me speechless on that one.
        -Are you suggesting that no women petitions for higher pay raises and that’s the issue? Don’t you think that’s the first step that we take? What about the women that are hired the same time as men and start off at a lower pay rate for the same amount of time they put in for the same work? I believe that is the issue, not that we’re supposedly not asking for it.
        And again, rendered me speechless with your closing remark.

      • April 10, 2015 at 3:53 pm

        Let me try to help clarify what’s baffling you.

        A “manly” man doesn’t “tattle,” doesn’t go running to some authority to have them deal with a problem that directly affects them. They, instead, deal with it themselves. This leads directly to the idea that men don’t play the victim the way that women do because, for a man it is worse harm to admit to being or being seen as victim than most personal crimes and affronts would be.

        As far as the “A man would never wear a short skirt (or spandex) or show cleavage” thing, I wholeheartedly disagree with that being a cause of respect or disrespect.

        I used to work with a woman and the two of us, her the Regional Sales Director and I the Regional Technical Director, we tasked with growing the company’s new SE region and, if at all possible, displacing our more established competition.

        She gain even more of my respect when she carefully chose where, when, and in front of which people to overtly showcase her beauty and quite sexy body. She was eminently practical and pragmatic and used whatever tools she had at her disposal to achieve her ends.

        And yes, she and I also very frankly discussed my clothing choices and deportment on joint meetings, especially when the potential client was a woman.

        Then again, I’ve known others who just seemed to dress “provocatively” to get ahead w/o having to out-compete others using a more job related skill-set. I still have respect for them though – and a bit of envy since I couldn’t compete effectively in their arena – because they too used whatever tools they had at they disposal to achieve her ends.

      • April 10, 2015 at 8:39 pm

        Anyone, male or female, has the right to call the police if they are in danger. That is what they are for. That is why our society works. If we all take matters into our own hands it becomes anarchy. If you think someone has committed a murder, you report them and they are arrested, and then the rest of society can objectively confirm whether or not if they are guilty. If you take care of it yourself, you might end up causing a bigger mess of things.

      • April 10, 2015 at 9:01 pm

        You seem to live in a fantasy or you have little or no conception of how men think. Also, your chosen example is erroneous or irreverent.

        Yes, a man will not be shamed for calling in a murder…or any crime against another. That doesn’t hold true in the absolute when it’s crimes against himself, especially ones of personal violence.

        If a man assaults me – it’s happened – I don’t bother with the police. I do my best to beat and break him and then that’s the end of it as far as I’m concerned. It was an issue between men and was properly decided between us.

        The same holds true in my case for any time a woman is assaulted by man in my presence – this too has happened. I break the aggressor(s), then I ask the woman if she feels like calling the police to add to their misery. To be fair, when this happened I first asked her if she’d like to me kill them and the two of go our separate ways.

        Understand, the law is designed to protect the weak. No man worthy of the designation will declare himself among the weak. And yes! This can make things worse in some ways, especially since the average cost of getting a justifiable homicide verdict is 100K+

      • April 10, 2015 at 9:49 pm

        Interesting.

        I wasn’t saying a man would be shamed for calling in a murder. I was addressing an earlier comment you made.

        We seem to be straying from the topic of feminism, though. I still fail to see why feminism is so bad. The experiences I’ve had that have led me to conclude that sexism is still a part of our society have yet to be shown to be misinterpreted.

        I maintain that until we’ve had a few female presidents, and larger female representation in congress, and men no longer make legislative decisions concerning women’s bodies, the idea that men and women have achieved equality seems rather silly. I do believe the battle is coming to a close, but we are not there yet, not at all. And as for the rest of the world, feminism is much needed.

  2. Matthew Chiglinsky
    April 12, 2015 at 5:41 pm

    Oh, yeah, on the pay gap, I think feminists need to start encouraging girls to ask guys out on dates then, because part of the reason men need more money is because we’re expected to take girls out on dates, pay for the dates, and later support our families economically. Girls almost never ask us out on dates. All girls do is passively smile and flirt and wait for us to make the move.

    If you want the same treatment as men, then you also need to bear the same responsibility.

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